Alison Novak ©️ Seven Days
Zoie Saunders, left, during her confirmation hearing
Zoie Saunders, Gov. Phil Scott’s pick for Vermont’s education secretary, took her first step toward confirmation on Tuesday when she spent 90 minutes answering questions from the state Senate Education Committee.
A school administrator from Florida, Saunders described herself as a data-driven leader committed to supporting Vermont's public education system. She also spent some of her opening remarks defending her professional experience, which has been dissected since she was nominated for the job. Critics have zeroed in on her seven-year stint as a strategist for a privately held, for-profit charter school management company in Florida. She’s also never worked as a teacher, principal or superintendent.
"I chose a career that afforded me a broad view of education and an understanding of the many factors that contribute to students' success," Saunders told the five-member committee inside a small room at the Statehouse.
Saunders, who started work last week pending confirmation, said she spent her first days on the job meeting with Agency of Education staffers and traveling around the state to speak with administrators and students. She said she was planning on embarking on a more comprehensive "listen and learn" tour that would allow her to develop a "unifying vision" for the state's education system.
Before the hearing began, Sen. Brian Campion (D-Bennington), the committee chair, acknowledged that Saunders' nomination had garnered significant interest and assured her the Senate was committed to a "fair, respectful, thoughtful confirmation hearing."
Committee members peppered Saunders with questions about her past work experience and her hopes for the future of Vermont schools.
Several times, Saunders asserted that her experience working in charter schools was evidence that she supported public education.
"In every state that I've worked, charter schools are public schools," Saunders said, noting that charter school students take the same state assessments as students in traditional public schools.
Saunders said she was still learning about Vermont's unique tuitioning system, in which students who do not have a public school in their town are allowed to use public dollars to go to a school of their choosing. She said her understanding was that public and independent schools in Vermont have an "interdependent relationship." Saunders said she believed it was important that rules were in place to ensure that independent schools do not use discriminatory practices around enrollment.
The most pointed questions came from Sen. Martine Gulick (D-Chittenden-Central), a former public school librarian.
Gulick said she had received more than 300 emails from constituents expressing concern about Saunders' lack of experience working as a teacher, principal or superintendent. She asked Saunders to share specific examples in which she implemented state or federal policy in a school district.
Saunders said she was responsible for managing $45 million in grants, worked on school improvement planning, and developed budgets and curriculum.
"I would just posit that managing grants is quite different from implementing state and federal policy," Gulick said. "Title I, Title IX, IDEA — have you implemented any of those federal policies at a state level?"
"No, I have not worked at a state level," Saunders replied.
The education committee did not take public comment during the hearing but invited people to submit written statements.
VT-NEA and the Vermont
Superintendents,
Principals' and
School Boards associations each submitted commentary expressing their members' concerns with Saunders' previous work experience.
More than 50 Vermonters did as well; the vast majority of their comments were against Saunders' appointment as education secretary. Five of Saunders' former colleagues in Florida submitted letters endorsing her.
Kevin McCallum ©️ Seven Days
Frank Davis watching the hearing from the Statehouse cafeteria
Retired high school teacher Frank Davis of Derby Line watched the hearing via live stream from an overflow area in the Statehouse cafeteria, at times openly mocking her answers.
Davis said he was annoyed that he was not allowed to sit in the committee room to watch the hearing or to testify. He argued that the best leaders come up through the ranks and said, by that measure, Saunders' résumé was lacking.
“She would not even be qualified to get a teacher’s license from her own agency,” Davis opined.
The Senate Education Committee has three choices when it comes to Saunders, according to testimony last week from John Bloomer, secretary of the Senate. They could vote favorably or unfavorably on her nomination, or they could vote her nomination out of their committee with no recommendation. Any of those options would require three votes to move forward.
The committee’s recommendation will then go to the Senate floor, where a member of the education committee will report their decision. That is expected to happen next week.
A simple majority of the full Senate is required for Saunders’ confirmation. If confirmed, Saunders would be appointed until February 2025. At that point, she would need to be reappointed and reconfirmed to continue serving.
Courtesy of Gov. Scott's office
Gov. Phil Scott with Zoie Saunders and her family
In conversation after the hearing, committee members discussed their impressions of the nominee.
"She's very composed," Sen. Terry Williams (R-Rutland) said. "I thought she responded to the questions well."
Campion concurred, saying he was impressed with Saunders' depth of knowledge about Vermont, having been here just a short time.
Sen. Nader Hashim (D-Windham) said he would have liked to hear Saunders talk more concretely about local policy issues, such as PCBs.
Sen. Gulick said she found Saunders to be well-spoken and intelligent but didn't believe she was up to the job of helming the Agency of Education at a time of crisis.
"I think we need someone who just has more experience working in public education, in schools, [who] understands policy, understands systems, understands public school management to a better degree," Gulick said.
Sen. David Weeks (R-Rutland) said he thought Saunders had missed the opportunity to clearly elucidate her priorities as education secretary.
Toward the end of the discussion, there was a tense moment between Campion and Gulick. Campion pressed Gulick about what she had wanted to hear from Saunders, then chuckled at his colleague's answer.
"I have an issue with my chair laughing at me, Brian," Gulick replied.
Campion said he would give committee members time to think about their decision before they vote on Wednesday afternoon.
Earlier in the day,
Friends of Vermont Public Education, a newly formed group made up of current and former school board members, called on the Senate to reject Saunders’ nomination. They also outlined additional actions that the legislature and the governor could undertake to protect the state’s public schools.
They recommended halting the practice of sending taxpayer money to religious schools and reinstating state aid for school construction, which has been on pause since 2007. They also recommended that legislators visit public schools, attend school board meetings, and talk to teachers and school board members to understand the challenges they face.
Adrienne Raymond, a former school board member from Shrewsbury, characterized Saunders’ nomination as “the culmination of over a decade of insufficient support from the governor for public education in Vermont.”
Ge
o Honigford, a former school board member from South Royalton and past president of the Vermont School Boards Association, said he wondered why the governor would select a secretary of education who has just several months experience working in a traditional public school system.
“Her experience is largely centered around charter schools, which we do not have in Vermont. I know that she has stated that charter schools are public schools, but they are not because they are privately governed,” Honigford said. [She’s a] bright, articulate, smart person — just not the one for this job.”
Kevin McCallum contributed reporting.