“There’s no way that was Michelle Obama.” I had to twist around so my boyfriend biking behind me could better hear the argument. The presidential vacation was the furthest thing from our minds when Tim Ashe and I left Cape Cod last Friday for a day trip to Martha’s Vineyard. We planned to cycle from Oak Bluffs to Gay Head, on the opposite end of the island — about 25 miles.
Halfway there, on a stretch of bike path surrounded on all sides by forest, we noticed an SUV coming toward us on the narrow ribbon of pavement. Lights on, New Hampshire plates. “Total idiots,” was our shared assessment. We had to navigate around the vehicle — carefully avoiding the side mirrors — to get past the rig.
About five minutes later, we passed the first bikers we’d seen in a while: an African American family… normal looking, except for the single white guy trailing behind them. “Whee,” the mother exclaimed as they contemplated the steep downhill we were climbing.
Once past them, I said to Tim, “God, everyone around here looks like Michelle Obama.” Tim quickly concluded that we had just seen the First Lady, Sasha and two bodyguards.
I was so busy disagreeing with him that I didn’t even notice the oncoming entourage. Then I heard Tim intone, “Hi, Mr. President.”
This article appears in Aug 25-31, 2010.
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Oh wait. The comment before last one was Jimmy’s. Sorry. I commented too quickly figuring it unlikely there would be two people still motivated to comment on this post. And I promised Jimmy the last word too. I’m sorry. OK, you’re right about everything Jimmy. Thanks for pointing out my flawed logic and false facts. You’re right. I’m wrong. You’re right. And now I swear to God I won’t comment again on this thread, and you can seriously have the last word if you want it. I promise. I swear. Because I’m ignorant and wrong. And you’re right. Cheers.
Where’s Jimmy?
“It seems like you are a person who could never admit you are wrong about anything”Um . . . “The “middle class” has been slipping away in this country for 30+ years. Maybe the people I’m thinking of are not “middle class.” Maybe they are poor, but the number of poor seems to be growing by leaps and bounds, and despite your apparant refusal to even try to see the point I’m making, the fact is most people do not own vacation homes. And in my humble opion, most people who own them are probably rich.”This rant, esp. the last sentence, seems to be more driven by your unshakable personal “feelings” than by any facts you have cited about the middle class or the poor. Your are certainly entitled to have — and keep — your feelings about things. But you don’t have the right to require other people to accept them because you just feel strongly about them.Which is interesting because in your postings on this board you are generally not shy about confronting other people on the bases for their statements if you don’t agree with them.
“If the person your describing has rental income from their second home, then clearly that would be income on top of their 20K pension, now wouldn’t it?”They don’t. Their property taxes are just cheap, as I believe I described that they can be in places other than Vermont. But let’s say they had $5K in rental income to offset higher property taxes – does $25K make them rich? If not, what’s your point?”My point is sound and I still believe in it despite the degree to which I might be ignorant about some things.”Well at least you admit it.Most working or middle class families can acquire a second home in the manner in which I described. They don’t need lots of money, just a desire for a second home and a modicum of intelligence about personal finances. I can’t tell if you still don’t understand that or just choose to ignore it because you admittedly said something other than what you meant but now can’t let go of it.The fact remains that there are accepted definitions for terms like “middle class” and “rich.” You made statements relative to both of those terms that are demonstrably false. That’s all I was pointing out. Before you ascribe some sort of obsessive need to be right, read back through the thread. I think it’s pretty clear who is trying to stay on topic.
1) The value of the property in the 1960s does not tell us the value of the property today. Today’s value is what’s important, and whether or not your friend could be considered rich would partly depend on what that amount is.2) I did not say buying a house and renting it out is not plausable. I said “it seems inconceivable that someone making 20K could afford” a second place without wealth. If the person your describing has rental income from their second home, then clearly that would be income on top of their 20K pension, now wouldn’t it?3) One million does not constitute “millions.” If you want to be the facts police, be consistent.4) My point is sound and I still believe in it despite the degree to which I might be ignorant about some things. If you want to define “vacation” as simply taking a day off, then I guess you’re right- it is not true that many middle class (however you define that) cannot afford a “vacation.”It seems like you are a person who could never admit you are wrong about anything, but from my perspective, you are missing the forest for the trees. The “middle class” has been slipping away in this country for 30+ years. Maybe the people I’m thinking of are not “middle class.” Maybe they are poor, but the number of poor seems to be growing by leaps and bounds, and despite your apparant refusal to even try to see the point I’m making, the fact is most people do not own vacation homes. And in my humble opion, most people who own them are probably rich.Nothing you have said has changed my mind about anything. Now, please- have the last word if you’d like. It seems pretty clear you won’t let it go until you do. So have at it “Jimmy…”
There are a lot of places where a cabin in the woods, or even on a lake, carries a property tax of less than $1000. That may seem inconceivable if you’ve spent most of your life in Vermont, but it’s true. And again, you can rent the place out to partially or completely offset those taxes if they’re higher.”The inheritance thing seems the most plausable, which leads me to my earlier point about the embarassment of riches you didn’t agree with”1. Buying a place for $7K in the 60’s did not mean you were rich, especially if you did it the way I described. And it certainly doesn’t mean the person you left it to is rich.2. Buying a house and renting it out isn’t plausible? On what planet?3. They did a study in 2004 and found that there are about a million snowbirds each year, as if it matters. If you’ve ever been to Florida during the winter, the phenomenon is quite obvious.4. “Trumpeting” and “admitting” are two completely different things.Speaking of trumpeting, there’s no shame in being ignorant about certain aspects of life, and there’s no shame in shouting out facts that that ignorance has led you to believe – you don’t know what you don’t know. But this insistence on continuing to try to salvage points based on beliefs that have clearly been shown to be erroneous is a little baffling.
I’ll admit I’m entirely unfamiliar with these kinds of arrangements. From my little perspective it seems pretty darn fancy to own a second place, and it seems inconceivable that someone making 20K could afford one unless they also had considerable wealth.”Millions” of snowbirds seems like an exageration. Does Florida’s population fluxuate by millions of people every winter? Really?The inheritance thing seems the most plausable, which leads me to my earlier point about the embarassment of riches you didn’t agree with. From what I’ve seen in life, most people with money inherited it, or started out rich and got richer. The children of the rich stay rich and the children of the poor stay poor, it seems to me. If somebody started out poor and worked his way up, then I’d imagine he’d be happy to talk it. If somebody has always been well off because they were born into it, which is most of the people who are- then it seems to me they are more likely to down-play, rather than trumpet their “success.”